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PostSubject: Trade/Economy Tidbits   Trade/Economy Tidbits Icon_minitimeSat Jul 21, 2007 12:02 am

I would very much like to find some better detail on the economy and trading within game. I spent a long time this evening searching the net and was unsucessful in finding anything bettter than the little I already know.

However I was able to find some other interesting tidbits (most of which you may already have seen):

* This first one I took from a follow up of a Devchat covering questions that had been missed (out of time) duing the live chat: I found it interesting in that we, as players of the French faction were the premise behind the question and the answer was somewhat surprising, at least to me it was.

Quote :
|QUESTION| (RAL) will there be population based bonuses or some other means to try
and even out the odds for a less populated faction like say the French. As to
avoid a complete "gank the french" by the spanish and really populer
british navys, in reguards to port conquest i understand each nation can have 4
ports"or so" in contention at any given time?
|ANSWER|


One of the biggest means for leveling the playing field is the population
cap on final battles. If the French can field a Ďdream teamí of expert PvPers,
the other nations canít just zerg them. Numbers will matter, but not as much as
in some games.

That said, we are definitely looking into bonuses for people who choose
low-population nations.


* I read that other (friendly) players can not come aboard your boat, but this officer things sounds enjoyable to me; caught my eye:

Quote :
Also planned post launch is officers. While your crew is
basically faceless tossaways, officers will be special characters acquired via
quests and add something to your capabilities. Specifics haven't been decided upon quite yet.

(Taken from this article)
http://ve3d.ign.com/articles/804/804346p1.html


* This last one is just fun:

A cool website that shows all of the players and their home
town (Players who added themselves).


http://www.frappr.com/potbs

P.S. I saw at least one SGS in there.



*So if anyone has a good reference/link to some Trade/producing details... please share. Thanks.


Last edited by on Sat Aug 04, 2007 3:13 pm; edited 1 time in total
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PostSubject: Re: Trade/Economy Tidbits   Trade/Economy Tidbits Icon_minitimeSat Jul 21, 2007 2:16 pm

I have looked around some more and I think I have an idea of what Dermid's producing line will look like:

From Rum_Raider on the main boards:
Quote :
This sounds so cool. Simply yet
Brilliant! I just have one simple question thio...Will we be able to be
brewers? :yar:
From Isildur, a dev for potbs:
Quote :
Sugar plantations produce sugarcane. Refineries produce sugar and molasses. Distilleries produce rum from molasses.
Laughing

For a lot more insight on economy, you can go to this link on the main boards:
http://www.flyinglabs.com/forums/showthread.php?t=11375

Lots of good stuff in there, but it's very long. You'll want to skip through it, reading only the entries made by Isisdur (Name in red).

Oh, and hereís one I found for all our meant and potato members:

Cattle Ranching
Inputs: 20 Maize, 1 Cattle
Outputs: 2 Cattle
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PostSubject: Re: Trade/Economy Tidbits   Trade/Economy Tidbits Icon_minitimeSat Aug 04, 2007 3:15 pm

Guild Organisation: In how far are players bound to the towns they have their building slots in? For a guild would it be better to operate out of a single town or have numerous outposts? (pros/cons)

[FLS]Taelorn> There are two ways that players are bound to specific towns. The first is your warehouse. You need a warehouse at any port where you want to produce economic goods. Every warehouse you add is increasingly expensive, so you need to be careful in that regard.

If you scrap a warehouse it will decrease the price for your next warehouse. Keeping structures in two ports is cheap, because the warehouse cost is small.

Three ports gets a little bit more expensive, and four is very expensive.

I should note that our building system uses lots Ė you can have 10 lots, or buildings, per account. Some structures (such as a large shipyard) might require multiple lots.

Warehouses are independent of the lot system.

Assuming youíre in a good position with your warehouses, itís relatively cheap for an efficient business to scrap its current production facilities and build new ones.

Iíve done this several times in the course of the beta. Since my business was always profitable, the financial strain of making new buildings did not matter.

Itís costly enough to prevent someone from jumping around and making whatever they want whenever they want, but it doesnít prevent adapting to changing markets.
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PostSubject: Re: Trade/Economy Tidbits   Trade/Economy Tidbits Icon_minitimeSat Aug 04, 2007 3:37 pm

To get all of the DEVs Q&A for the Player owned economy see this link.
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PostSubject: Re: Trade/Economy Tidbits   Trade/Economy Tidbits Icon_minitimeSun Aug 05, 2007 12:26 pm

Your contributions are appreciated. Carry on.

(Did that sound appropriately pompous? Laughing)
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PostSubject: Re: Trade/Economy Tidbits   Trade/Economy Tidbits Icon_minitimeTue Aug 07, 2007 12:12 pm

Wilhelm von Somborn wrote:
Your contributions are appreciated. Carry on.

(Did that sound appropriately pompous? Laughing)

/thumbs up
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PostSubject: Re: Trade/Economy Tidbits   Trade/Economy Tidbits Icon_minitimeWed Aug 08, 2007 11:47 am

QJ: How hard is it for players to acquire a ship? What does one have to do to get their hands on one?

Flying Labs: That depends on how you want to acquire it!

While you could always pay for one, thatís an extremely expensive option, particularly since the ships available and their prices are entirely dependent on player shipwrights. Other options are waiting for someone to award you a ship in recognition for your valorous service in their cause. Trade companies and navies will often grant players ships in this way.
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PostSubject: Re: Trade/Economy Tidbits   Trade/Economy Tidbits Icon_minitimeWed Aug 08, 2007 4:52 pm

Looks like I'll be looking at the trade company route.

It would be nice if we could get organized enough to crank out even a few ships - even if that wasn't the primary goal. It will be interesting to see how this whole economy really works.

Wonder if you can pass ships around or whether they are locked to your player? Anyone know if you can transfer your ship to another player if you upgrade? Are they infinitely repairable? Just thinking. I assume it will function more like traditional MMORPGs but with such an overall different slant on the economy, that may be completely wrong.
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PostSubject: Re: Trade/Economy Tidbits   Trade/Economy Tidbits Icon_minitimeWed Aug 08, 2007 5:15 pm

I'm almost certian that they are infinitely repairable. And I would hope that you can trade ships. That would be a nice system within a society, where when you get a new ship, the one you replace is handed down. That would be nice.
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PostSubject: Re: Trade/Economy Tidbits   Trade/Economy Tidbits Icon_minitimeWed Aug 08, 2007 5:42 pm

Hmm, I think the ships will be inf. repairable, it might be unrealistic but too costly to players and nobody likes to lose his uber ship that they have worked so hard on.

Would definetly be intresting if the ships can be sold to other players. It would be cool if youd go to a ship auction and see all this customized rigs Very Happy Talk about pimp my ship!
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PostSubject: Re: Trade/Economy Tidbits   Trade/Economy Tidbits Icon_minitimeWed Aug 08, 2007 10:38 pm

Dermid Gavin wrote:
Anyone know if you can transfer your ship to another player if you upgrade?

That's the only one I'm not sure on, I can give a logical guess but, I'll look around to see if I can't find something in writing.

Here's some other nifty thigns:

Question Six: Has there been discussion if the servers are going to have routine periods of downtime for maintenance?

Rev: Itís hard to say really. We expect that weíll have to reboot the machines often, as itís easier to keep systems running if you can go and just reboot the machine when it needs it.

Rusty:Yeah, but restarting a machine means that itís down for half-an-hour, not half a day.

Rev: Our process to bring everything down and back up again is a matter of
minutes. The servers are actually highly segmented. Instead of having a server that does nothing but chat, or a server that does nothing but AI, we actually segment out a lot of that. So if a machine goes down, itíll affect the people who are in that zone.
Theyíll be popped out, and the main server process which runs across several machines will notice that these players are looking for this zone, so itíll spin it up on another machine, and so, after a very short amount of time, theyíre back in. Itís not like one machine takes out an entire world. We can even do in-place hardware upgrades. We can tell a machine to stop servicing zones, and when players leave those zones, the machine basically has no responsibility anymore, so we can shut it down, and put the new one in its place. And when it boots up it starts handling zones again. Itís kind of the same principle as Googleís
architecture. Itís designed to run on lots of relatively cheap machines.

Question Eighteen: Is there any implementation to protect against professional farming operations?

Rev: This is a problem that afflicts every game, and itís hard to defeat, or
else it wouldnít be in every game out there. We have a server that can watch for any type of data, or data event that we tell it to. We can insert probes to look for, say, any player to player transaction over 2000 gold. We can be very specific with these probes. Itís all about having the right data mining tools to track and locate the data that you want. The first step is knowing about it.

AND here's a link to what their stufdio looks like.
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PostSubject: Re: Trade/Economy Tidbits   Trade/Economy Tidbits Icon_minitimeThu Aug 09, 2007 1:27 pm

<BLOCKQUOTE>This link will tell you more than you probably want to know about the player run economy:
http://www.burningsea.com/pages/page...ticle_id=10253

In it, our lead designer lays out how it all works. But Iíll summarize here. Youíve got the basics of it mostly right. You are managing businesses, not crafting individual items. Each *account* has 10 building slots available to it for building structures. We do it per account so that people donít feel obligated to play alts to maximize their production. You can build structures in most ports, depending on how good your reputation is with the owning faction (free traders have an easier time of this).

Each building can runs ďrecipes,Ē which take inputs of money, potentially goods and stored labor and uses them to produce outputs. The labor accumulates in real time, hour per hour, up to 3 days per structure. So when you visit the port where your structure is located (canít run it remotely) you can use up any stored labor it has accumulated to run recipes.

There are some structures, like a draftsmanís office, that just take money as input and produce building plans (fairly quickly, only needing an hour of labor). Others harvest natural resources (which must be present in the port to build that structure there). So a granite quarry will take money and labor and produce granite. Other recipes need the output of other structures to run, so a tannery needs the animals produced by a hunting camp to make hides, and then leather. A carpenter needs the leather and oak logs from a logging camp to make hull patch kits, and so on. The list of things that goes into a 104 gun ship of the line is scary, as it sits at the top of a very large production chain (or pyramid, really).

No single player can build a ship, but you can occupy most niches in the web production by buying and selling on the auction house from/to other players. Just about everything in the game ends up being player produced, and everything you produce is needed by someone. There arenít any useless ďgrind 20 of these because itís the cheapest skill upĒ items flooding the AH, because there arenít any skill-ups. You make what people need and they pay you. You spot opportunities in the market and you exploit them.


Iíve had a fun time running into PVP zones and dodging 40 gun ships in my newbie ship to get to the one source of granite nearby, and then selling the results for a huge markup back in the newb zones. Then other people saw the opportunity, and as other brave captains began to risk their ships to make the run the prices came down with increased supply. Meanwhile, Iíd made enough to buy my next ship and I was on to the next challenge. It makes for a fun and ever changing world to play in, as you never know if that port you need to get to will suddenly be surrounded by players (& NPC ships) trying to take it over, or if youíll get caught up in the PvP zone of some nearby port that is in contention.
Rick Saada - FLS Dev & EPFBM
</BLOCKQUOTE>And in another topic he answered more questions that many of you undoubtedly have about the advantages and disadvantages of choosing a particular nation:


<BLOCKQUOTE>For what itís worth, weíre really not going for any kind of a rock/paper/scissors affect between the nations. Theyíll have different starting ports and easily available economic resources (which makes for different emergent gameplay as they try and scramble for what they each need), but weíll try and make sure nobody is screwed from the start. Thatís part of what the beta is for, so we can discover that ďyes, the French did have a worse starting position than the rest, we should fix it.Ē And while Iíve been tempted to start rumors that the French ships have better morale because their food is better, Iíve so far resisted.


The different sides do have nation specific quests, so you wonít see all the content if you just play one side, although some of the quests are versioned for each. Pirates have some specific gameplay differences because they arenít really a ďnationĒ and so donít have a navy and suchlike, but the other three are more similar than not.
Rick Saada - FLS Dev & EPFBM</BLOCKQUOTE>
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